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to the church, and it's a great expression of the character of joseph ratzinger. >> kathy, let me go to you on this. what was your first reaction when you heard about this today? were you surprised? there's a lot of rumors around new york, by the way, that cardinal egan had been working on this for awhile and it had been kept silent but not entirely. were you shocked at this? what was your first reaction? >> absolutely shocked. thought it was a farce. had to look it up five times to see it was real. it's sad. really sad. i love this pope. there's so much love for this pope. and even though he's still going to be with us, it's really like a mourning of him, i think. some of us are experiencing. but i like what you said about humility. when we look at john paul ii's end, many people came away with his public suffering and death as thinking he's teaching us how to die. and now look at this pope. he's teaching us how to be humble. i think it's a beautiful lesson from pope benedict. >> george, it's a complicated question. but in a word as briefly as you can, how do you see pope benedict's legacy
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